UFC commentator and podcaster Joe Rogan has received major backlash due to his controversial ‘pseudoscientific’ public discussions regarding Covid-19.

This response comes in light of comments made in extremely popular episodes of his podcast The Joe Rogan Experience (JRE) featuring cardiologist Dr Peter McCullough, who voiced that the Covid -19 vaccines are experimental, and virologist Dr Robert Malone, who has criticised government responses to the pandemic as ‘mass formation psychosis’, or mass hypnosis. 

After signing a $100million contract with music streaming giant Spotify, the company was able to buy the exclusive rights to the popular podcast. The audio show, hosted by Joe Rogan, consists of interviews with many prominent figures, from politicians to musicians, internet personalities, and conspiracy theorists. 

Joe Rogan’s public views on the whole ordeal have been criticised – he has spoken out about how healthy, young people shouldn’t be vaccinated, explaining it’s no worse than the flu – though he has back-pedalled since. In his episode starring comedian Dave Smith, he discouraged younger people from getting vaccinated, saying: ‘if you’re like 21 years old, and you say to me, ‘Should I get vaccinated?’ I’ll go no.’ In another interview with comedian Bill Burr, he retorts ‘[mask-wearing is] for b*tches’.

As the number one Spotify podcast in the USA and the UK, garnering over 11 million listeners per episode, discussions deep dive into a realm of topics –  most notoriously the pandemic, and vaccinations. 

Joe Rogan posted a nine-minute clip on Instagram responding to the negative comments. Particularly addressing the misinformation claims spawned from his interviews with the aforementioned doctors, he explained:

‘I do not know if they are right, I don’t know, because I am not a doctor, not a scientist, I’m just a person who sits down and talks with people and has conversations with them. Do I get things wrong? Absolutely. I get things wrong, but I try to correct them. Whenever I get something wrong, I try to correct it because I’m interested in telling the truth, finding out what the truth is. And I am interested in having interesting conversations with people that have differing opinions. I am not interested in only talking to people that have one perspective.’

He also believes that there is some rationality in his statements and that the changing nature of scientific advice means that misinformation can turn into fact. Rogan continued:

‘The problem that I have with misinformation, especially today, is that many of the things that we thought of as misinformation just a short while ago are now excepted as fact. For instance, eight months ago if you said ‘if you get vaccinated, you could still catch Covid, and you could still spread Covid,’ you would be removed from social media. They would ban you from certain platforms. Now that is accepted as fact.’

Public backlash

Reactions started pouring in after an open letter directed toward Spotify, signed by 270 healthcare professionals was published asking the company to help mitigate the damage that has been done by JRE. They wrote:

‘Dr Malone’s interview has reached many tens of millions of listeners vulnerable to predatory medical misinformation. Mass-misinformation events of this scale have extraordinarily dangerous ramifications. As scientists, we face backlash and resistance as the public grows to distrust our research and expertise. As educators and science communicators, we are tasked with repairing the public’s damaged understanding of science and medicine. As physicians, we bear the arduous weight of a pandemic that has stretched our medical systems to their limits and only stands to be exacerbated by the anti-vaccination sentiment woven into this and other episodes of Joe Rogan’s podcast.’

Additionally, they point out that based on data, the average listener is 24 years old – and unvaccinated 12-34-year-olds are 12 times more likely to be hospitalised with Covid as opposed to those who are fully vaccinated. This has prompted artists to take action.

Acclaimed rock and folk artists Neil Young and Joni Mitchell are the most notable figures to pull their repertoires from the streaming giant in an effort to show their solidarity with these scientists. In a now-deleted letter addressed to his management team, Neil Young wrote:

‘I am doing this because Spotify is spreading fake information about vaccines – potentially causing death to those who believe the disinformation being spread by them’.

Joni Mitchell followed up with a short statement posted on her website, saying:

‘I’ve decided to remove all my music from Spotify. Irresponsible people are spreading lies that are costing people their lives. I stand in solidarity with Neil Young and the global scientific and medical communities on this issue’.

By doing this, they are giving up over 10% of their annual revenue. 

Looking at how popular and lucrative the podcast is, it seems unlikely that Spotify will remove any of Joe Rogan’s content for these artists. When music is streamed, Spotify loses money as the company must pay the artist royalties, but with podcasts that they have bought the rights to, such as JRE, there is money to be made from listeners. 

In response to this, Spotify has added advisory warnings to its podcasts containing discussions of Covid-19, a move that has been applauded by Biden’s administration. 

Is this enough?

There is an ongoing infodemic that has made the Covid pandemic even more difficult to deal with. It is easy to make misinformed health decisions, harming not only individuals but those around them, and it is integral that the information spread – especially health advice – is backed by peer-reviewed scientific papers and endorsed by official health agencies. Conspiracies and personal beliefs are one thing, but when others’ lives are in danger, there must be more action taken. 

Deplatforming has been heavily campaigned for. However, this could easily be taken as censorship. This in turn can create a sense of martyrdom, adding some veil of credibility to the movement and resentment toward the ‘suppressive’ big media companies. Subduing freedom of speech is not the aim, the goal is to limit the influence of false information disguised as fact. Although it may not have been his intent, Joe Rogan’s podcast has become an alternative news source, acting as an ‘enlightening’ force telling its listeners information that has been ‘hidden’ from the masses by the ‘despotic’ government and health officials.

Warning labels are a step in the right direction, but perhaps not enough to undo the damage done by the bold claims made in Rogan’s content. The only thing one can do is be vigilant about the type of information they’re consuming, and research big claims made online. 

Free speech suppression?

Vaccine discussion is essential. Free will and freedom of speech must be taken into account when making personal health choices. However, positing claims that are not backed by science as fact and platforming these views to millions of people worldwide is extremely dangerous. 

Though there have indeed been recorded side effects from the vaccines – such as cases of myocarditis in males under 30 for the Pfizer and Moderna shot, and blood clots for female Johnson & Johnson users under 30, it is important to look at the solid facts and figures, providing contextualisation. Millions have received these vaccines, and the degree of severity has decreased monumentally, leading to fewer fatalities. 

Rebutting dangerous facts is integral to ensure that people do not feel oppressed. However, critical thinking and digital literacy are integral for this to work, and sadly, many underage or out-of-the-loop users are not able to grasp this.  

The nature of the Internet and sensationalism means that postulations can be postured as ‘facts’, spread through non-official channels, through friend groups, and influencing many who naively believe without researching the veracity of claims. 

Regardless, Joe Rogan has pledged his commitment to being a better-informed interviewer and public figure. He admitted his faults, reassuring that:

‘My pledge to you is that I will do my best to balance out these more controversial viewpoints with other people’s perspectives, so we can maybe find a better point of view’.

It is integral to create platforms and information systems that provide balanced views of topics, and discussion must always aim to reach the truth, not further one’s own point of view. However, this completely changes when discussing medicine and science that affects other individuals – realms where there are definite facts. Greater caution must be taken by tech companies to amend misinformation, especially in relation to potentially life-threatening matters. 

About the Author: Shadine Taufik

Shadine Taufik is a contributing Features writer with expertise in digital sociology and culture, philosophy of technology, and computational creativity.